Racial traits based on class would help to make class and race combination something unique an orc would not see magic the same way elves do. But still be able to use it . Also my opinion on orc druid is that is ok because the lack of a shaman class being a spiritual tribe leader could be cover by druids . No shamans means we need druids for orcs, nature is survival of the strongest you are prey or predator, orc will agree on that as a power they can wield in battle.
Racial traits based on class would help to make class and race combination something unique an orc would not see magic the same way elves do. But still be able to use it . Also my opinion on orc druid is that is ok because the lack of a shaman class being a spiritual tribe leader could be cover by druids . No shamans means we need druids for orcs, nature is survival of the strongest you are prey or predator, orc will agree on that as a power they can wield in battle.
Also Orcs were created by Aragon like Bearan, they were born from Earth, there's a nature deep connection there.
There's were Lore is important, Orcs from different universe can be similar but not the same.
Hablando por todos las clases bastante fisicas siepre le quedan bien a un orco, el unico problema son clases como : Brujo,Necromancer,Paladin y Druida
Brujo y Necromancer podrian justificarse al ser los Orcos bastante fuertes y siempre queriendo poder a pesar de costarles su mente y,o Alma pudiendose aceptar Orcos corrompidos por el poder mientras se aporte a su tribu/Clan siendo guias o poderosos guerreros a pesar de romper las tradiciones
Creo que la mayoria ya acepto que nunca habra un Orco paladin, aunque desde mi punto de vista revisando el concepto de paladin la "Luz" acude a aquel que pelea por un bien que a "uno mismo le parece lo correcto" por lo que no seria tan raro mas si una minoria, de orcos paladines que si bien siguen en su busqueda de fuerza la encuentran en su Fe y sirven como protectores de su clan en el plano Fisico y ademas Espiritual acompañando a los brujos/Necromances de una forma de magia Pura y no oscura/Corrupta
Y los druidas si que podrian adaptarse a un clan ya que al ser tan tradicionales los orcos los Chamanes y Druidas serian el pan de cada dia en las tribus siendo siempre los guias espirituales que los les dan esa "Fuerza" que tanto buscan a traves de la naturaleza y elementos
(Podria darse un detalle especial que los orcos Druidas tengan algun talento/pasiva opcional que haga que los druidas NO sean totalmente animales sino formas antromorficas de manera parcial o solo en ciertas partes, Como lo es Udyr de League of Legends solo presentando sus Garras,Espalda,Brazos,Pecho de distintas maneras dependiendo su forma,[Mejores garras en formas felinas,Mas robustes en formas de osos,o animales grandes, Ciertos protecciones de cuerpo etc)
O incluso ver variantes de Orcos-Animales Teniendo garras de felinos,Espaldas de osos,Cuernos de alces, Branquias de peces (para la forma de nado)
Seria una forma cosmetica bastante buena de abordar y tambien serviria para que el enemigo identifique que tipo de druida es para asi saber que tipo de emboscada puede crear (Ya que no seria igual de facil emboscar a un druida tanque defensivo que a un guerrero ofensivo que descuida su retarguardia en pos de mejorar su ataque)
y como extra Un orco pirata se aplicaria bastante bien ya que son guerreros agiles con espadas,dagas y una pistola de mano comunmente algo que los orcos que no son totalmente tribale o de clanes y crean sus propias Tripulaciones de bucaneros y corsarios hechos de distintas razas piratas dejando sus diferencias de lado para conseguir botines, oro, Fortunas y vivir distintas aventuras en el mar
Hablando por todos las clases bastante fisicas siepre le quedan bien a un orco, el unico problema son clases como : Brujo,Necromancer,Paladin y Druida
Brujo y Necromancer podrian justificarse al ser los Orcos bastante fuertes y siempre queriendo poder a pesar de costarles su mente y,o Alma pudiendose aceptar Orcos corrompidos por el poder mientras se aporte a su tribu/Clan siendo guias o poderosos guerreros a pesar de romper las tradiciones
Creo que la mayoria ya acepto que nunca habra un Orco paladin, aunque desde mi punto de vista revisando el concepto de paladin la "Luz" acude a aquel que pelea por un bien que a "uno mismo le parece lo correcto" por lo que no seria tan raro mas si una minoria, de orcos paladines que si bien siguen en su busqueda de fuerza la encuentran en su Fe y sirven como protectores de su clan en el plano Fisico y ademas Espiritual acompañando a los brujos/Necromances de una forma de magia Pura y no oscura/Corrupta
Y los druidas si que podrian adaptarse a un clan ya que al ser tan tradicionales los orcos los Chamanes y Druidas serian el pan de cada dia en las tribus siendo siempre los guias espirituales que los les dan esa "Fuerza" que tanto buscan a traves de la naturaleza y elementos
(Podria darse un detalle especial que los orcos Druidas tengan algun talento/pasiva opcional que haga que los druidas NO sean totalmente animales sino formas antromorficas de manera parcial o solo en ciertas partes, Como lo es Udyr de League of Legends solo presentando sus Garras,Espalda,Brazos,Pecho de distintas maneras dependiendo su forma,[Mejores garras en formas felinas,Mas robustes en formas de osos,o animales grandes, Ciertos protecciones de cuerpo etc)
O incluso ver variantes de Orcos-Animales Teniendo garras de felinos,Espaldas de osos,Cuernos de alces, Branquias de peces (para la forma de nado)
Seria una forma cosmetica bastante buena de abordar y tambien serviria para que el enemigo identifique que tipo de druida es para asi saber que tipo de emboscada puede crear (Ya que no seria igual de facil emboscar a un druida tanque defensivo que a un guerrero ofensivo que descuida su retarguardia en pos de mejorar su ataque)
y como extra Un orco pirata se aplicaria bastante bien ya que son guerreros agiles con espadas,dagas y una pistola de mano comunmente algo que los orcos que no son totalmente tribale o de clanes y crean sus propias Tripulaciones de bucaneros y corsarios hechos de distintas razas piratas dejando sus diferencias de lado para conseguir botines, oro, Fortunas y vivir distintas aventuras en el mar
Es bueno ver qué alguien trata de pensar fuera de lo ordinario en lugar de cerrarse en una idea, concuerdo bastante contigo, Orcos Paladines podrían ser una minoría, pero es posible, serían como las ovejas negras de la familia, es posible.
Desde mi parecer los brujos pueden ser los seres de cualquier raza capaces de lidiar con las artes prohibidas sin ser corrompidos, pero ese tipo de magia siempre tiene un costo y aún sin ser corrompidos deben pagarlo, tal vez por el bien de los clanes/raza/familia o por voluntad.
Last edited: 2022-04-23 00:57:02As we discussed in Discord I think all races should be able to be all classes.
BUT IF NOT
Then everything but Paladins and Priests, and maybe, just maybe not Druids.
I'm not sure about Druids because I would like to see an ORC DRUID, nature is dangerous, Orcs still have that primal sense of measuring strength through fights, and Orcs have learned to survive dangerous places.
If you want sell a DLC that allow us to play all classes with all races, but I would really like to play any class with any race, TAKE ALL MY MONEY,
I absolutely agree with the desire to have all classes available to all races. There is no benefit to restricting race/class combinations. It doesn't make your choice of race or class more special or important, it simply limits your choices. As a somewhat extreme example; when I used to play WoW, I only played Orcs. They were my favorite race and as much as I liked the rest of the races being available and present in the world, I was only interested in playing Orcs. This meant there were classes that I just didn't ever play. While I admit this is a self-inflicted restriction, there wasn't any benefit to me to make up for the inability to play certain classes. Being an Orc shaman isn't any more special than being a Dwarf shaman, and the fact that Gnomes can't be Shamans doesn't make it any more interesting or desirable a choice either.
I like the intention of Scars of Honor, I like the very familiar and stylized art style, and I like the selection of races and classes you've presented so far. As big a fan of Orcs as I am, I would likely do the same thing in SoH as I did in WoW; that is only play Orcs. However, my favorite fantasy RPG class is the necromancer, and you currently aren't allowing Orcs to be necromancers; meaning I would likely choose not to play Scars of Honor simply for the fact that you have made the decision that I have to choose between playing my favorite race OR my favorite class fantasy.
This race/class restriction concept is a holdover from the early days of tabletop RPGs, as far back as when Elf was a class in D&D. None of the major tabletop RPGs have restricted race/class combinations in decades. Other MMOs are even starting to move away from the concept. WoW keeps opening up their restrictions to the point that the ones that are left make less and less sense (outside of requiring some unique art assets), FFXIV allows you to level every job (class) on a single character; GW2 has no race/class restrictions; etc.
In our modern gaming culture, my opinion is that race/class restrictions are a dated concept that does more to diminish interest in your game than it does to provide your players with an enjoyable experience.
I absolutely agree with the desire to have all classes available to all races. There is no benefit to restricting race/class combinations. It doesn't make your choice of race or class more special or important, it simply limits your choices. As a somewhat extreme example; when I used to play WoW, I only played Orcs. They were my favorite race and as much as I liked the rest of the races being available and present in the world, I was only interested in playing Orcs. This meant there were classes that I just didn't ever play. While I admit this is a self-inflicted restriction, there wasn't any benefit to me to make up for the inability to play certain classes. Being an Orc shaman isn't any more special than being a Dwarf shaman, and the fact that Gnomes can't be Shamans doesn't make it any more interesting or desirable a choice either.
I like the intention of Scars of Honor, I like the very familiar and stylized art style, and I like the selection of races and classes you've presented so far. As big a fan of Orcs as I am, I would likely do the same thing in SoH as I did in WoW; that is only play Orcs. However, my favorite fantasy RPG class is the necromancer, and you currently aren't allowing Orcs to be necromancers; meaning I would likely choose not to play Scars of Honor simply for the fact that you have made the decision that I have to choose between playing my favorite race OR my favorite class fantasy.
This race/class restriction concept is a holdover from the early days of tabletop RPGs, as far back as when Elf was a class in D&D. None of the major tabletop RPGs have restricted race/class combinations in decades. Other MMOs are even starting to move away from the concept. WoW keeps opening up their restrictions to the point that the ones that are left make less and less sense (outside of requiring some unique art assets), FFXIV allows you to level every job (class) on a single character; GW2 has no race/class restrictions; etc.
In our modern gaming culture, my opinion is that race/class restrictions are a dated concept that does more to diminish interest in your game than it does to provide your players with an enjoyable experience.
I don't agree that race/class restrictions fix that problem. If you have players only playing a small selection of the available races, that's a development issue and likely boils down to one of two things: either racial abilities aren't balanced, or some races are just better designed in aesthetic or animation than others. Trying to force players to choose a race they don't want to play just so they can play a specific class is not a good way to fix either issue.
As an example, FFXIV has no racial abilities or bonuses and every race can play every job. While a couple of the races are a little more popular, you still see every race represented across the community. By removing any min/max reasons to play a specific race, players are allowed to choose the race they like the look or concept of most, thus greatly evening out the statistics of races played.
If you have race/class restrictions but racial abilities aren't well balanced, people won't choose to play less popular races in order to access a class the more popular race can't play as; they'll just stick to the classes that can have the more powerful and popular racial traits. In WoW, a game that has a long history of race/class restrictions, certain races have dominated the landscape while others are barely represented specifically because some racial abilities are considered more powerful and more desirable than others, and the fact that there is a small selection of classes available to the more popular races doesn't force players to play other races. With race/class restrictions, you will always have one race considered to be the best choice for a class, and a large part of your player base will choose that "best" race/class combination just out of fear of missing out on a small percent of power.
I don't agree that race/class restrictions fix that problem. If you have players only playing a small selection of the available races, that's a development issue and likely boils down to one of two things: either racial abilities aren't balanced, or some races are just better designed in aesthetic or animation than others. Trying to force players to choose a race they don't want to play just so they can play a specific class is not a good way to fix either issue.
As an example, FFXIV has no racial abilities or bonuses and every race can play every job. While a couple of the races are a little more popular, you still see every race represented across the community. By removing any min/max reasons to play a specific race, players are allowed to choose the race they like the look or concept of most, thus greatly evening out the statistics of races played.
If you have race/class restrictions but racial abilities aren't well balanced, people won't choose to play less popular races in order to access a class the more popular race can't play as; they'll just stick to the classes that can have the more powerful and popular racial traits. In WoW, a game that has a long history of race/class restrictions, certain races have dominated the landscape while others are barely represented specifically because some racial abilities are considered more powerful and more desirable than others, and the fact that there is a small selection of classes available to the more popular races doesn't force players to play other races. With race/class restrictions, you will always have one race considered to be the best choice for a class, and a large part of your player base will choose that "best" race/class combination just out of fear of missing out on a small percent of power.
That's another double-edged sword. I find Final Fantasy a very bad example. Final Fantasy comes from the Asian region, and there the gameplay is generally somewhat different from that of us West-Eastern Europeans and North Americans. One must not forget that the community was so dissatisfied with the game that the developers rebuilt it from scratch. I think it's justified that not every race can play a class. For example, lore-wise I would never give an Orc a wand. Orcs are strong fighters but not wand wielders :D The racial abilities don't matter much, that's really only a few percent that make up maybe 10% of the players from all over the world. The racial abilities can be neglected as a normal player, and you can play the race you like best. To get the most out of it, you play the class with the best racials. These are crucial in the high tier endgame, but only if you want to grind hard for a progression or become the first on the server.
That's another double-edged sword. I find Final Fantasy a very bad example. Final Fantasy comes from the Asian region, and there the gameplay is generally somewhat different from that of us West-Eastern Europeans and North Americans. One must not forget that the community was so dissatisfied with the game that the developers rebuilt it from scratch. I think it's justified that not every race can play a class. For example, lore-wise I would never give an Orc a wand. Orcs are strong fighters but not wand wielders :D The racial abilities don't matter much, that's really only a few percent that make up maybe 10% of the players from all over the world. The racial abilities can be neglected as a normal player, and you can play the race you like best. To get the most out of it, you play the class with the best racials. These are crucial in the high tier endgame, but only if you want to grind hard for a progression or become the first on the server.
Final Fantasy is one of the top MMOs worldwide right now, I don't think its origins factor into the argument. Nor do I think the A Realm Reborn rework is an argument against open race/class combinations, as race/class combinations were not a factor in why the original attempt was disliked, nor was it a factor in the rework, a rework that is celebrated as one of the best examples of a developer listening to and appropriately reacting to feedback from its fans in gaming history.
As far as you saying lore-wise you would never give an Orc a wand; I would. Why should your stereotypes of a race limit my gameplay experience? If race and class combinations were unrestricted, you could still choose NOT to make an Orc mage or necromancer or paladin if you don't like the concept. But restricting race/class combinations means that developers are artificially limiting player choice and player opinion. The lore-based argument becomes especially frustrating when the race/class restrictions aren't consistent. If I were to use WoW as an example, many fans continue to argue against Orcs being able to play paladins because they don't share the human worship of the Light and are "too evil." This is despite the fact that there are other races in WoW currently that can play paladins who also don't share the human worship of the Light. And if that were the case, why are humans, who worship the Light and are seen by these same fans as the "good" alternative to the Orcs, able to play warlocks? If the stereotypically holy and pious humans have members who eschew their cultural norms to wield demonic magics, why is it impossible to see members of the Orc race eschew their cultural norms and become paladins?
The same inequity exists in Scars of Honor's currently proposed race/class restrictions. Humans, described on their race's page as "noble beings with a will for life like no other. Even in the eyes of death humans draw their strength from their unmatched faith in the sacred gods" can be necromancers or pirates. If we're looking at race/class restrictions following strict racial stereotypes; humans shouldn't be allowed to play either class, as it clashes with their lore of being pious and their own page stating: "From birth to death they follow sacred laws written by the first men."
Final Fantasy is one of the top MMOs worldwide right now, I don't think its origins factor into the argument. Nor do I think the A Realm Reborn rework is an argument against open race/class combinations, as race/class combinations were not a factor in why the original attempt was disliked, nor was it a factor in the rework, a rework that is celebrated as one of the best examples of a developer listening to and appropriately reacting to feedback from its fans in gaming history.
As far as you saying lore-wise you would never give an Orc a wand; I would. Why should your stereotypes of a race limit my gameplay experience? If race and class combinations were unrestricted, you could still choose NOT to make an Orc mage or necromancer or paladin if you don't like the concept. But restricting race/class combinations means that developers are artificially limiting player choice and player opinion. The lore-based argument becomes especially frustrating when the race/class restrictions aren't consistent. If I were to use WoW as an example, many fans continue to argue against Orcs being able to play paladins because they don't share the human worship of the Light and are "too evil." This is despite the fact that there are other races in WoW currently that can play paladins who also don't share the human worship of the Light. And if that were the case, why are humans, who worship the Light and are seen by these same fans as the "good" alternative to the Orcs, able to play warlocks? If the stereotypically holy and pious humans have members who eschew their cultural norms to wield demonic magics, why is it impossible to see members of the Orc race eschew their cultural norms and become paladins?
The same inequity exists in Scars of Honor's currently proposed race/class restrictions. Humans, described on their race's page as "noble beings with a will for life like no other. Even in the eyes of death humans draw their strength from their unmatched faith in the sacred gods" can be necromancers or pirates. If we're looking at race/class restrictions following strict racial stereotypes; humans shouldn't be allowed to play either class, as it clashes with their lore of being pious and their own page stating: "From birth to death they follow sacred laws written by the first men."
Keep in mind that the lore is being worked on as we speak, many things will change including the class/race availability.
Lore wise everyone can be corrupted, no matter how big of a worshiper he is, and vice versa the big bad Orc can be brought into the light.
How about a "Bad Paladin" on the Domination side, a class that has broken every sacred oath of the Paladin Order and is now a zealot, an "Oathbreaker" 😉
That is why these topics are here, to brainstorm and gather your feedback/ideas 😊